This doesn't directly answer your question, but I have had some thoughts along similar lines. I wouldn't describe a bad thing as "gay" (partly because it's not a slang term that I've ever picked up, and partly to avoid offending people), but one thing I've noticed is that people use "lame" in a similar context. Does that bother you in the same way, because of the "disabled = bad" implication? Again, it's something that I try not to say, but neither term offends me if I hear it elsewhere, when I'm sure that the person didn't intend that association.
Taking another example, I've heard people say "Wow, that's wicked!" as a compliment, without meaning "I worship an evil demon overlord, and all my moral values have been inverted". Also, looking at the flipside of your original comment, how about people using "gay" in its original (archaic) sense of "happy"? That's certainly unusual nowadays, but I would say that it's still valid.
I guess my general attitude is that it's ok for the same word to have different meanings in different contexts, even if it is slightly confusing. So, it's fine to ask people to use different terminology, but I'd lump it into the same category as "OMG! LOL!!11!!" etc., i.e. something that kids will grow out of on their own, and where prodding probably won't have much effect.
I'd also be wary of describing anyone who uses "gay" = "bad" as homophobic, since in many cases they're probably just being tactless. Otherwise, you risk diluting the term, and even making it seem acceptable. ("Oh, yeah, someone mentioned homophobes the other day - it's just what they call people who use l33t-speak, so there's nothing wrong with being one.")
I wouldn't describe a bad thing as "gay" (partly because it's not a slang term that I've ever picked up, and partly to avoid offending people), but one thing I've noticed is that people use "lame" in a similar context. Does that bother you in the same way, because of the "disabled = bad" implication?
That's a really interesting point. Actually... it doesn't bother me, but that's mainly because I don't hear the association with people being lame, and I don't think that's where the phrase came from. Besides, call me lame and I'll thwack you with my stick ;)
On the other hand, "spastic" as an insult makes me see red. Spastic was an actual medical term before it got abused to the point where the Spastics' Society had to change their name because the members were so ashamed. Kids use the word as an insult without any idea what cerebral palsy is, or what the difference between cerebral palsy and other physical or mental disabilities is, and just to slag off people who aren't even visibly disabled. "Retard" is similar. I'm sure there are others.
Sure, gay means happy :) And on the rare occasion meeping or gerwinium do something stereotypically gay, I'll tell them "You're so gay!". Because it's literally true, and we all know that I don't think gay=bad. Likewise, on the rare occasion I actually behave like a person of my birth gender (like taking all afternoon to buy a pair of shoes), they say "You're such a woman!".
The problem is, if you reserve the word "homophobia" for thugs who actively beat up gay people, what word can you use for the casual insulter? Most LBGTQ people meet dozens of insulters for every one thug, and may find "casual" homophobia much more of a problem in everyday life.
I dunno. I'm sure there are links online to other people's writings, where they rant much more cluefully than me. I'm just posting late on a Sunday night about something that was bothering me, rather than proposing any radical solutions.
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2005-03-20 11:26 pm (UTC)Taking another example, I've heard people say "Wow, that's wicked!" as a compliment, without meaning "I worship an evil demon overlord, and all my moral values have been inverted". Also, looking at the flipside of your original comment, how about people using "gay" in its original (archaic) sense of "happy"? That's certainly unusual nowadays, but I would say that it's still valid.
I guess my general attitude is that it's ok for the same word to have different meanings in different contexts, even if it is slightly confusing. So, it's fine to ask people to use different terminology, but I'd lump it into the same category as "OMG! LOL!!11!!" etc., i.e. something that kids will grow out of on their own, and where prodding probably won't have much effect.
I'd also be wary of describing anyone who uses "gay" = "bad" as homophobic, since in many cases they're probably just being tactless. Otherwise, you risk diluting the term, and even making it seem acceptable. ("Oh, yeah, someone mentioned homophobes the other day - it's just what they call people who use l33t-speak, so there's nothing wrong with being one.")
no subject
Date: 2005-03-20 11:58 pm (UTC)That's a really interesting point. Actually... it doesn't bother me, but that's mainly because I don't hear the association with people being lame, and I don't think that's where the phrase came from. Besides, call me lame and I'll thwack you with my stick ;)
On the other hand, "spastic" as an insult makes me see red. Spastic was an actual medical term before it got abused to the point where the Spastics' Society had to change their name because the members were so ashamed. Kids use the word as an insult without any idea what cerebral palsy is, or what the difference between cerebral palsy and other physical or mental disabilities is, and just to slag off people who aren't even visibly disabled. "Retard" is similar. I'm sure there are others.
Sure, gay means happy :) And on the rare occasion
The problem is, if you reserve the word "homophobia" for thugs who actively beat up gay people, what word can you use for the casual insulter? Most LBGTQ people meet dozens of insulters for every one thug, and may find "casual" homophobia much more of a problem in everyday life.
I dunno. I'm sure there are links online to other people's writings, where they rant much more cluefully than me. I'm just posting late on a Sunday night about something that was bothering me, rather than proposing any radical solutions.