tricycles for the gravitationally-challenged

[baratron]

Does anyone know anything about tricycles for adults?

I can't ride a normal bicycle because I don't have enough balance, and a recumbent would be a bad idea bearing in mind I'm asthmatic and being lower to the ground puts me closer to car exhausts. Since we moved house going to Sainsbury's has been a PITA for me, because it's slightly too far for me to be able to walk there, walk round the shop, and then walk home again. It's on a bus route, but not a convenient one - for me to get there by bus I have to go into Kingston itself and back out again, which is just a bit tedious, y'know? So I was thinking the answer (to this, and a few other transportation annoyances) would be for me to get a tricycle.

I know I can ride a bike with stabilisers, and apparently it is possible to buy stabilisers for adults. But I don't have any confidence that putting stabilisers on my bike and practising will make me miraculously gain the sense of balance I'm lacking - I've never been able to walk along a narrow beam or wall for more than a few feet without falling off (probably I'm lacking something in my inner ear). More importantly, I think if I tried riding a bike with stabilisers, I'd feel like a complete moron and people would laugh at me - whereas if I rode a trike I'd look cool in a geeky sort of way. Plus there is a whole support group for adult tricyclists, and you can even get racing and mountain trikes.

Tricycles are generally much more disabled-friendly - several suppliers sell trikes adapted with low frames (so it's easy to get a dodgy leg over the top), orthopedic seats and backrests. Having Googled extensively, there are a surprisingly large number of companies making trikes, but some of them are far too expensive for me to consider (in excess of £1500!!) or not suitable for my needs. I've narrowed it down to 3 possible choices. What I want is some advice about which one might be best for me.

The Mission trike looks like the kind of tricycle I had in mind - big and stable with a large shopping basket at the back. Also, there's a shop in London that sells it. It's comparatively cheap as trikes go - ~£400. But it doesn't fold, and because trikes are so enormous there's no way I'd be able to take it on the train without paying the bike supplement - and as the trains that go through Kingston & Norbiton don't have a guards van, it becomes totally impractical if I wanted to take it into central London. I don't know if I'd actually want to cycle in central London, but it would be nice to have the option.

Di Blasi make a folding tricycle that can also be adapted with a (folding) backrest, but two drawbacks are that it's significantly more expensive (~£800), and it doesn't have a luggage area. You can get a luggage rack, but it's mounted at saddle height rather than between the wheels. This would limit the amount of shopping I can put in it, and also make it harder to balance - as lack of ability to balance is the whole reason I'm going for a trike, I'm not so sure about this. It's difficult for me to predict at this stage just how much I'm going to find myself using the trike, so it's difficult for me to make a decision about stability vs portability.

Pashley make several trikes, including the Tri-1, which seems like the best of both worlds. It's the same low-slung shape as the Mission trike, you can get a basket, wide saddle and back support for it, and it even comes with the option of a folding frame. I don't think it folds down as small as the Di Blasi, though, and all these options add up:
£595 for the basic trike - ok, that's pretty reasonable
£645 for the trike with a folding frame
£85 for a rear basket
£25 for a wide(-arse) saddle
£85 for a back support
and £30 for getting it in a colour other than tomato red (!)
thus making a total of £870.

Also, Pashley are based oop north (Stratford-upon-Avon) and I don't know whether they have any southern resellers, which could make actually trying out the trike a pain (~£30 rail fare and several hours effort).

eBay is of course a possibility, but I don't know how sensible it is to buy a second-hand cycle from the internet. I know NOTHING about basic cycle maintenance, having never had one (funnily enough, if you can't ride something without falling off, you tend not to want one), and I would prefer not to be riding a death-trap. I discovered the other day that there exists a safe cycling for adults course in my local area, so I would of course go to that prior to riding on the road, but I'm not sure whether they also cover maintenance or indeed whether they'd know anything about trikes.

Update: Please read this comment before commenting. Either help me answer these questions, or help me find someone who can.

Advice, please?! Should I go for the cheapest option non-folding and try to sell it & buy a new one later if I find I'm using it more? Or go for the more expensive trike, with the folding option I may never use? And does anyone know anything about the reliability and customer service of the three companies mentioned? (Pointless buying something which looks good if it breaks down all the time and the company want to charge you an arm and a leg to fix it).

Comments

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[lproven.livejournal.com]

Alex asked me to comment, but I must be brief, therefore curt!

[1] What you describe is a problem of nervousness, not the inner ear or anything else. If you're nervous on a solo, you'll be nervous on a trike or anything else. What you need to do is beat the nerves. Changing vehicle may help this but it is *not* the answer. You have to change *you*.

I speak from experience. I was run over by a bus in 1994, while on my motorbike. Along with a shattered limbs & a mostly-metal skeleton now, I had whiplash injuries and the semicircular canals in my inner ears are severely damaged. My sense of balance is fucked. It took me a long time - 6mth+ - to learn to walk safely again. I can ride a bicycle as well as ever and I could and did *before* I could walk unaided. The exercise of cycling is whay I can walk without a limp today (unless I'm very tired or the weather is cold & wet).

You do it with eyes and brain more than balance organs; you could probably learn to do it without otoliths at all.

Get a static exercise bike or a rollertrainer for your existing bike. I got a 2nd hand one for £30; a trike will cost you more than an order of magnitude more than that. Practice. Practice lots. Do it assiduously until you have built up the strength in your legs. Then cycling on the road will be less effort and you can focus on control. A month or 2 of doing it at LEAST 3 times a week for 30min and preferably every day will cause major, noticeable improvement. I did it with one leg smashed in more than 13 major places, my hip held on with a bolt and severe chronic asthma, when I had to limp painfully to the bike on crutches. You can too.

[2] Trikes are quite hard to ride at first. You can't lean so steering is utterly different. You will be even more scared - MUCH more - at first on a trike. You also need to be aware of this.

[3] Recumbents are not all that low. You're thinking of racing ones. I own a street recumbent myself. On mine, the rider sits at car driver height. Visibility is good - way better than a car - and you really get noticed. The thing about traffic fumes is *utterly* spurious. If you are significantly overweight, you will be MUCH better off on a 'bent than an upright. They cause much less pain and stress to arms, wrists, shoulders, neck, bum and fanny than upright bikes or trikes. They are even more beneficial for female riders than male.

Go to Bikefix. Try everything they offer. 'Bents are MUCH easier to ride than uprights, both solo bents and trikes compared to solo bikes and trikes, and this is especially true if you're unfit or overweight or asthmatic or any combination thereof.

However: on a 'bent or a trike, you will attract attention. You will get jokes and comments and abuse and piss-taking. I know; I ride a 'bent and a motor trike and a sidecar outfit. Anything out of the ordinary, you will get stick. You have to be able to cope with this. You will have to grow thick skin.

You'll get abuse from car drivers even on a bicycle.

Finally: my personal experience of upright adult trikes is minimal. I'm a 'bent man, myself. ;¬) For info from an upright trike rider and evangelist, go ask my girlfriend, the_major.

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[alexmc.livejournal.com]

> Alex asked me to comment,

On the basis that I know nothing about bicycles or tricycles, but I know a man who does....

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[baratron.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your comments, but I don't think you read anything I said.

I have never owned a bicycle because I have never been able to ride one. It is not a question of leg strength, because I used to go to the gym several times a week, and as part of my workout would ride the exercise bikes. "Eyes and brain" could well be the problem - I am entirely lacking in hand-eye co-ordination. If you throw an object towards me gently, I will catch it maybe 50% of the time. If you hit a small ball towards me (like a tennis ball) and expect me to hit it with a racket or bat, I will hit it maybe 5% of the time. The only hand-eye co-ordination I have has been trained into me by video games. I suppose I must have small amounts of leg-eye co-ordination from Dance Dance Revolution, but that's a completely different situation (you follow the music first and the arrows secondly, and can learn the note patterns).

You knew how to ride a bike before you had your accident, therefore the problem was to retrain your abused muscles to something you could already do. I have never been able to ride a bicycle for more than 3 bicycle lengths. The shifting of balance thing makes no sense to me - I can't do it. I can't stand on one leg, and I found yoga almost impossible. If I can't even balance myself half the time, of course I'm bloody nervous when sitting on a ridiculously thin metal frame with my centre of balance in completely the wrong place!

That's why I want a tricycle - I'm bottom heavy, and so's it. 2 wheels to support my generous arse, rather than one. As you say, you can't lean on one - GREAT! That's what I want!

Did you see what I said about why I want the cycle? To take shopping home from the shops. How can I do that on a recumbent? With a trailer? OK, fine - but how can I secure the recumbent + a trailer while I'm in the supermarket?

I'm trying to restrain my Fist Of Death here, because you've come in well-intentioned to try to help me, but you just haven't answered any of the points I actually wanted answered! I have already decided that I want a tricycle - the question isn't tricycle vs some other kind of cycle, it's "should I buy the cheaper one that doesn't fold or the expensive one that does?", "is it safe to buy cycles off eBay when I know nothing about their maintenance?" and "have you heard anytihng about the reliability and customer service of the three companies: Mission, Di Blasi and Pashley?".

I'm almost in tears with frustration and anger here, because I've read my way through 18 comments, only a few of which actually addressed my issues. I don't need Geek Answer Syndrome telling me how I might manage to learn to ride a bicycle when I've already realised there is no way I'll be able to ride a bicycle with shopping attached. Even if I manage to learn to ride a bike, I can't ride one with heavy shopping - even a lot of the experienced cyclists I know can only carry shopping in a rucksack on their backs, not on the bike itself - and a rucksack is no good at all for my disability. And I strongly object to someone telling me that traffic fumes are spurious. When I was using a wheelchair, traffic fumes were a nightmare. Recumbents are the same sort of height as wheelchairs, aren't they?

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[ex-the-major316.livejournal.com]

Briefly:
- Go to the tricycle association and ask to write an article about the specially adapted trikes, you've got the web address. They are the people who will know as there are plenty of members who are disabled, use thess trikes and get on fine, they are (as I know them all) very friendly. If they wont let us know and I'll write it! Its the easiest place to find out.
- Find someone who will lend you a trike for a week and see how you go, find a park or somewhere FLAT (trikes have a tendancy to steer to the left making balance hard) to practice and see what it feels like to start. Most companies arms can be twisted to let you trial one if they think you're seriously considering buying one. If they get fussy yell and I'll bang a few heads together for you.
-Trikes with additional weight can be harder to balance shopping needs to be distributed well as the handling is horrible otherwise. Though you could get a trailor: they aren't that hard to store outside sainsburys. Just lock them to the trike. Alternatively panniers which you see on bikes can be fitted to the front wheel and its is possible to have a fitting made for the back of the trike so that you can fit bags on to that. A ruck sack shouldn't be needed unless you are shopping for a hundred. You can get a lot of stuff on a trike (believe me I used to do it all the time).

Hope it helps.

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[lproven.livejournal.com]

Ahh, Helen-Louise. You probably won't remember me but we have met, several times, & I've read stuff you've written. I do have some idea what you're: intelligent, headstrong, strongly-opinionated.

I read your post closely and answered to the best of my ability from the basis of really quite considerable knowledge of these areas - a LOT more than your knowledge of them. ew

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[lproven.livejournal.com]

I'm almost in tears with frustration and anger here, because I've read my way through 18 comments, only a few of which actually addressed my issues.

[Big sigh] You probably won't remember me but we have met, several times, & I've read stuff you've written. I read your post closely and answered to the best of my ability from the basis of really quite considerable knowledge of these areas - a LOT more than your knowledge of them. I knew that you wouldn't like it.

[1] Bicycles. You're wrong. Anyone can learn to ride a bicycle, barring certain major disabilities. If you can stand and walk, you can ride. It is /easier/ than walking once you get over The Fear because you have a dirty great 2-wheel powered gyroscope underneath you keeping you upright.

[2] Recumbents & baggage carrying. You're wrong. I can easily carry far more luggage, both in volume and weight, on a 'bent than on an upright. They are lower, stabler, longer, and stronger. The upright bicycle is a /crappy/ Victorian design for any aspect of luggage-carrying or ergonomics.

[3] Recumbents & height. You're wrong. No, they are not the height of a wheelchair. They range from the height of a person lying flat on their back or belly on a fattish sleeping bag to nearly the height of a normal upright standing position. There are dozens of designs for all purposes on the market. Go try some. It's free.

[4] Rucksacks?! What ridiculous bollocks is this? NOBODY who knows ANYTHING about bicycles carries anything in a rucksack! It's the WORST possible way! It raises your centre of gravity stupidly high, puts extra weight on your arse and Bits making riding even more painful, and compromisese viewing, steering, honking, everything. Nightmare. Only for amateurs - stupid amateurs - or the desperately overloaded. Oh, and you get a nasty sweaty back, too, and bruised shoulders.

You keep the weight LOW. As low to the ground as possible. You get panniers, on the rear rack (which 'bents have too, yes) and if you need more space, on a front rack. Then if they are full you strap extra loads on the top of the rack(s), stabilised by the width of the panniers underneath. Then you sling bags on seat and handlebars. Then, as a *last resort,* you put it on your back, for short trips ONLY. If you're doing all your shopping on it, you might get a trailer too.

On a 'bent you can also sling loads underneath the main frame horizontal.

All this LOW weight makes the steering slower and the bike less responsive, but it's low, so it doesn't make balancing harder. In fact if anything it makes it easier, because the bike's movements become slower & more predictable.

Try some bents. Try a trike. But also get some proper serious professional assistance in learning to ride a bike. You CAN do it. It is the best solution - in fact, a recumbent bicycle is the best solution, for most things except serious off-road mountain biking - and it's cheaper and easier.

But by all means, try trikes, upright and 'bent. It'll cost you, though!

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[lproven.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. P.S. Trikes. Don't buy a cheap toy. I suspect the folding one is a cheap toy.

P.P.S. Don't forget you need to balance a trike too. Observe closely the very first pic on this (useful) page (which you ought to read):

http://www.tricycleassociation.org.uk/Home.html

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[ex-the-major316.livejournal.com]

Joyous picture of Steve and friends there showing the major disadvantage of trikes.
The whole leaning over buisness (and the resulting burn marks you get on your thighs if you miss and hit the wheel [and it really hurts!!]) only really comes into play if you are going at any speed (I think they said they were doing about 20 mph when that picture was taken), normally I could get away with leaning weight on the handlebars and pedals to about 15 mph. But if you have well balanced luggage racks on the back this might aid the balance keeping more weight on the back wheels and preventing them from lifting.
They are of course riding racing trikes which are more likely to tip than your normal road one and from what I was able to find today disabled trikes can be weighted to prevent them from tipping over unless you really try.

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[baratron.livejournal.com]

P.S. I linked to that in my original post.

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[baratron.livejournal.com]

Now I really am in tears.

If you knew I wouldn't like what you had to say, why did you bother saying it? Do you have any idea how condescending you're being to me? Let me try to put this into another context to try to make this make sense. Let's say someone posted on a forum saying "I want some advice buying a new PC. I don't want to get a Mac because I find them too difficult to use, but I don't mind what brand of PC I get as long as it runs Windows. I know I need some kind of photo editing software: would I be better off getting Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro?". Then in reply, another poster posts a long rant about how shitty Windows is, how it crashes every 5 seconds, and how the original poster was wrong for thinking they couldn't use a Mac, because Macs are dead easy - they only have one mouse button! Plus the new iMac is perfect for photo editing.

OK, so how is the original question-asker going to feel? They've tried to use a Mac on many occasions that they haven't bothered to talk about, they might even have tried the new iMac - they've decided they want a Windows PC and are asking for advice with that. Not only that, but the people answering have phrased their answers so as to imply that they are a moron for ever wanting to use Windows. NOBODY who knows ANYTHING about photo editing uses Windows.